Thanks for the interesting article. I have one question. If you are a mongoose and you are surrounded by mongooses thinking they are snakes, how should one proceed in this situation? Should you try to wake up the pretending mongooses and show them that they are mongooses or do you try to create a new identity which is relatable for the prentending mongooses?
Moral codes are capable of being almost as rational as other human ideas. But enforcing them tends to ruin them. And most people want them to work like legal codes and not like guidelines for personal behavior.
Excellent essay. Belief in 'universal values' is a superstition. Just like 'human rights' or 'equality'. They're empty abstractions given form by human systems that enforce belief in them at the threat of violence or exile. Real politics starts with 'What is my heart's true desire?' and then expands into the social field to deal with the 'heart's desire' of others in order to get *some* of that desire. This is what the Old People called 'liberty' before 'liberty' meant 'dope and pedophilia'. Most people have no idea what they really want in life or in the political-economy in which their life will unfold. They're fed a bunch of images of 'the good life' or what it means to be 'a valuable person' and they follow those early scripts not even realizing that the people who create those scripts want to exploit them mercilessly and then mock them in their dotage. Compassion starts at home. If it expands beyond that, great. If not, then we just have Hobbesean Westworld and it's 'achoo achoo we all fall down'. Fortunately, though, we have genetics to provide some constraints. If we just listen to what our genetic inheritance is whistpering to us. The man who restrains himself from throwing the troon in front of a moving bus isn't being moral. He's being used.
This is great! Just what I needed to read. You called me to question what I thought were primary aspects of my self concept. I had internalized universal moral principles without seeing the reality of identity necessarily trumping morality. I can now comprehend why my desire to somehow persuade [redacted] to stop parasitizing, poisoning and preying on My People by appeal to universal morality kept failing.
"it is quite clear that certain groups of people do not hold themselves to the same moral code that we do and will sadistically exploit our moral values, even use them as cudgels against us, to further their own ends. And they do it with glad hearts all the while, convinced that they are doing right by their group, their priests and their gods."
Now the question is, how do I use this to help my lineage and my People continue? Those poisoning and parasitizing us are not going to change their ways because I attempt to shame them with appeals to universal morality.
Possible typo?: "Would that make any sense to judge myself, a mongoose, by snake standards?"
expected: "Would *it* make any sense to judge myself, a mongoose, by snake standards?"
Strangely enough it was the 2004 Christmas tsunami that set my thoughts in motion on this very same topic. I made a considerable contribution to the survivors, only to be 'stabbed in the back' by my own government (what's new, right?). Which started the train of thought of why do we give to 'good causes' and what is moral anyway?.
I ended up embracing moral nihilism coupled with personal (and group) preferences as the way to go. (And no longer spend money on any 'good cause', I only help in person - financially or otherwise)
Exceedingly well said and written, Rolo. Now can we get ready for the real hysteria over Apophis attempting to destroy earth or at least most of its inhabitants? Just kidding. This was a supreme effort of yours.
I would respectfully submit that even though in modern times we say a “white male” or a “slav woman” as if the sex of the person was the most final and basic result of our definition of identity, I think it would be truer to our identity to say male white, or female slav. Because it takes both sexes to make the race, and aren’t we really just here anyway, giving our racial muscles a good workout? Damn, my race muscles are so weak. I can barely sit, barely stand. But I will. And thanks to you, Rolo, I won’t feel guilty about it.
Very good Rolo. I very much appreciate your incite and expression. I also like how you do not pander to anyone else's morality whether they read your essays or not.
"Actually, what we call morality is simply a series of compromises that people with different identities made to be able to share a society together.
So, we know that strong men, given the chance, would just have sex with as many attractive women as possible to spread their seed. We know that most women would, given the chance, have sex with the most attractive and dominant men even if commitment could not be secured and simply ignore the other men or try to trick them into raising the stronger male’s children. Read up on female hypergamy or just download Tinder if you don’t believe me."
You're dismissing the role that self-awareness plays here. You're hinting at a deep truth when you speak of compromise. If you have some level of self-awareness, then hypocritical strategies like the ones you mention here can't help but result in the kind of cognitive dissonance that destroys a neurotypical mind (psychopaths are the obvious exception). You can't expect a loving and loyal wife if you aren't a loving and loyal husband. The morality is functional as it clarifies that there are trade-offs. You can't enjoy the fruits of virtue if you are vicious. The cynical response to this is that virtue bears no fruit on the withering tree of a deeply corrupted civilization. This is where I must admit the future is unknown. The ultimate ends we face as the result of our decisions can't be known. All we can really do is speculate. Cultivate virtue and pursue the righteous path, or justify your own vice as some kind of unavoidable human universal. As for warfare, discounting the role of morality and virtue on leadership and will is myopic. Breaking the will of the enemy is the decisive point in any battle. Morality plays an important role that is difficult to appreciate.
I very much disagree with this. How come the Taliban won and how come Arab nationalist regimes have ended in disaster? Look at Syria, look at Iraq. Arab nationalism has been a failure. White nationalism also has been a failure. I like your analysis of Russia but I think this is alt-right ideology and I think this is not good. I'm a Muslim but I think you were better off as a Christian than the Evola type stuff. Nationalism has... it ends up failing over and over. I believe in Islam but I have a strong sense of racial identity and connection to my history and culture and all that. But so what? It is not a replacement for a system of belief. People always had some sort of religion or "grand narrative". Identity has never been a a substitute for that. People historically had identity but they were also deeply religious. Of course I object very much to what you say about Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). But my hope is that you see that trying to replace religion with identity is an error and also very not-traditional- I think you are into Evola type stuff, right? This idea of replacing a comprehensive world-view with identity is a modern post-"Enlightenment" thing. And aren't you aware that all that stuff was pushed by Masonry? And you reject religion for what? To identify with paganism? No one these days really believes in Zeus. A person would be better off as a Christian than as a pagan- although I urge people to look more deeply at Islam. I get the impression you haven't looked at it very deeply. I of course would like you to be Muslim but in relative terms I think you'd be better off even as a Christian than a pagan.
>Because the Moral triumphs over and informs the material consequences of events occurring in this world, apparently
Unironically yes. You say you love the philosophy of the Ancients, but in the virtue ethics of the Greeks, it was taken for granted that vice and weakness are synonyms.
You say "Numbers, supplies, competent generals and so on decide the course of wars, for example, not the laws laid down in Deuteronomy." However, following the intent of the laws of Deuteronomy is what gets you numbers, supplies, and competent generals, as you yourself note in: "To make society more or less work, we forced both sexes to compromise on their sexual interests, which are a product of their innate identity. Sexual morality was simply a tool then, with a goal in mind: civilization."
The GAE has strayed from the intent of Deuteronomy since the sexual revolution of the 70s at the very least (and some say much earlier), and now no longer has competent generals, or supplies, or numbers of competent, loyal troops.
In terms of competent generals: take a look at any NATO meeting today. In terms of supplies: manufacturing has been deported to China (who is more or less pro-Russia), and the recent train derailments either show gross incompetence or active malice, both incapable of maintaining an advanced civilization. In terms of numbers: the GAE army is having trouble with recruitment, and the recruits they do have are worse than what was before.
Now you will probably say that Deuteronomy is jewish, therefore the GAE is more Deuteronomy than Russia. Except that religious jews come up with more and more clever ways to interpret Deuteronomy, as seen with the scope inflation of Deuteronomy 14:21, so as to not follow the intent, and secular jews like Nuland discard it entirely.
Is this "two moar weeks" cope? Possibly, although I usually go with "2 moar decades" on a civilization scale or "2 moar years" in this Russia vs GAE case. You yourself have noted that a lot of Russia's problems are due to political posturing and liberals thinking a deal can be cut with those who are agreement incapable and other vices, as seen with Wagner not getting their shells.
Where does identity interact with say culture? I would say identity forms the culture but it's the reverse right now. Whites are told to focus on fake secondary identities. Men literally cannot be men unless they're from a magical group and even that has limits. How do we restore root identity?
Russia took useful waterfront land from the NATO puppet, how is that a loss? The real problem is the Kremlin is having a 1/2 war, wasted time in anti-Russian areas in the north, and lost momentum. It is not God's fault Russians did not support Lebed.
Another good thought provoking writing. I am glad I subscribed.
For you like for most, myself included, discussions on morals and morality are quicksand. You make a mistake that should have become apparent when comparing an officer and a housewife : you confuse or conflate public morals, morals expected in the exercise of a function, organisation morals, and moral principles that organise the life of an individual. A woman as a wife uses one set of morals, as a mother another, as a managing director in an investment bank yet another, as an internet reseller yet yet another. Some of these function morals are codified implicitly or explicitly by the society or the state through the law or the media. Others are determined by the moral principles assimilated early in life.
Public morals are the set of rules that enable society to function by building the trust that the various social functions that an individual assumes have compatible morals.
As you indicate, some of our current problems arise because the masculine and feminine morals have been distorted and made incompatible. Others arise because legislating away and shouting away discrimination against sub-populations indulging in criminal behaviour exposes large swathes of the normal population to rampant crime and destroys trust in public authorities. Trannies can be analysed in a similar way.
Identity precedes morality you wrote. True, very true, because each layer of identity relates to a social function and is paired with an expected set of behaviours.
Even the ancient Greeks were happy to allie with the Persians against other Greeks. Alexander actively promoted mixing with the locals in his Empire. The ancient PIE very well may have mixed themselves into oblivion in India.
Perhaps identity is a better 1st principle than God in some cases but just like a society's conceptions of God can shift so can identity. What brakes down in a society first as a rule? Its relationship to the divine or its ethnic identity? Bosnians are pure Slavs but Islam puts them firmly outside the family despite them being racially identical to Serbs.
The God/identity thing is so interwoven that its not really possible to separate them.
Thanks for the interesting article. I have one question. If you are a mongoose and you are surrounded by mongooses thinking they are snakes, how should one proceed in this situation? Should you try to wake up the pretending mongooses and show them that they are mongooses or do you try to create a new identity which is relatable for the prentending mongooses?
Most people don't have a clue about morality.
Moral codes are capable of being almost as rational as other human ideas. But enforcing them tends to ruin them. And most people want them to work like legal codes and not like guidelines for personal behavior.
Excellent essay. Belief in 'universal values' is a superstition. Just like 'human rights' or 'equality'. They're empty abstractions given form by human systems that enforce belief in them at the threat of violence or exile. Real politics starts with 'What is my heart's true desire?' and then expands into the social field to deal with the 'heart's desire' of others in order to get *some* of that desire. This is what the Old People called 'liberty' before 'liberty' meant 'dope and pedophilia'. Most people have no idea what they really want in life or in the political-economy in which their life will unfold. They're fed a bunch of images of 'the good life' or what it means to be 'a valuable person' and they follow those early scripts not even realizing that the people who create those scripts want to exploit them mercilessly and then mock them in their dotage. Compassion starts at home. If it expands beyond that, great. If not, then we just have Hobbesean Westworld and it's 'achoo achoo we all fall down'. Fortunately, though, we have genetics to provide some constraints. If we just listen to what our genetic inheritance is whistpering to us. The man who restrains himself from throwing the troon in front of a moving bus isn't being moral. He's being used.
This is great! Just what I needed to read. You called me to question what I thought were primary aspects of my self concept. I had internalized universal moral principles without seeing the reality of identity necessarily trumping morality. I can now comprehend why my desire to somehow persuade [redacted] to stop parasitizing, poisoning and preying on My People by appeal to universal morality kept failing.
"it is quite clear that certain groups of people do not hold themselves to the same moral code that we do and will sadistically exploit our moral values, even use them as cudgels against us, to further their own ends. And they do it with glad hearts all the while, convinced that they are doing right by their group, their priests and their gods."
Now the question is, how do I use this to help my lineage and my People continue? Those poisoning and parasitizing us are not going to change their ways because I attempt to shame them with appeals to universal morality.
Possible typo?: "Would that make any sense to judge myself, a mongoose, by snake standards?"
expected: "Would *it* make any sense to judge myself, a mongoose, by snake standards?"
Top post!
Strangely enough it was the 2004 Christmas tsunami that set my thoughts in motion on this very same topic. I made a considerable contribution to the survivors, only to be 'stabbed in the back' by my own government (what's new, right?). Which started the train of thought of why do we give to 'good causes' and what is moral anyway?.
I ended up embracing moral nihilism coupled with personal (and group) preferences as the way to go. (And no longer spend money on any 'good cause', I only help in person - financially or otherwise)
Exceedingly well said and written, Rolo. Now can we get ready for the real hysteria over Apophis attempting to destroy earth or at least most of its inhabitants? Just kidding. This was a supreme effort of yours.
morality = social sacrifice
This essay is why I subscribe!
I would respectfully submit that even though in modern times we say a “white male” or a “slav woman” as if the sex of the person was the most final and basic result of our definition of identity, I think it would be truer to our identity to say male white, or female slav. Because it takes both sexes to make the race, and aren’t we really just here anyway, giving our racial muscles a good workout? Damn, my race muscles are so weak. I can barely sit, barely stand. But I will. And thanks to you, Rolo, I won’t feel guilty about it.
Very good Rolo. I very much appreciate your incite and expression. I also like how you do not pander to anyone else's morality whether they read your essays or not.
"Actually, what we call morality is simply a series of compromises that people with different identities made to be able to share a society together.
So, we know that strong men, given the chance, would just have sex with as many attractive women as possible to spread their seed. We know that most women would, given the chance, have sex with the most attractive and dominant men even if commitment could not be secured and simply ignore the other men or try to trick them into raising the stronger male’s children. Read up on female hypergamy or just download Tinder if you don’t believe me."
You're dismissing the role that self-awareness plays here. You're hinting at a deep truth when you speak of compromise. If you have some level of self-awareness, then hypocritical strategies like the ones you mention here can't help but result in the kind of cognitive dissonance that destroys a neurotypical mind (psychopaths are the obvious exception). You can't expect a loving and loyal wife if you aren't a loving and loyal husband. The morality is functional as it clarifies that there are trade-offs. You can't enjoy the fruits of virtue if you are vicious. The cynical response to this is that virtue bears no fruit on the withering tree of a deeply corrupted civilization. This is where I must admit the future is unknown. The ultimate ends we face as the result of our decisions can't be known. All we can really do is speculate. Cultivate virtue and pursue the righteous path, or justify your own vice as some kind of unavoidable human universal. As for warfare, discounting the role of morality and virtue on leadership and will is myopic. Breaking the will of the enemy is the decisive point in any battle. Morality plays an important role that is difficult to appreciate.
I very much disagree with this. How come the Taliban won and how come Arab nationalist regimes have ended in disaster? Look at Syria, look at Iraq. Arab nationalism has been a failure. White nationalism also has been a failure. I like your analysis of Russia but I think this is alt-right ideology and I think this is not good. I'm a Muslim but I think you were better off as a Christian than the Evola type stuff. Nationalism has... it ends up failing over and over. I believe in Islam but I have a strong sense of racial identity and connection to my history and culture and all that. But so what? It is not a replacement for a system of belief. People always had some sort of religion or "grand narrative". Identity has never been a a substitute for that. People historically had identity but they were also deeply religious. Of course I object very much to what you say about Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). But my hope is that you see that trying to replace religion with identity is an error and also very not-traditional- I think you are into Evola type stuff, right? This idea of replacing a comprehensive world-view with identity is a modern post-"Enlightenment" thing. And aren't you aware that all that stuff was pushed by Masonry? And you reject religion for what? To identify with paganism? No one these days really believes in Zeus. A person would be better off as a Christian than as a pagan- although I urge people to look more deeply at Islam. I get the impression you haven't looked at it very deeply. I of course would like you to be Muslim but in relative terms I think you'd be better off even as a Christian than a pagan.
>Because the Moral triumphs over and informs the material consequences of events occurring in this world, apparently
Unironically yes. You say you love the philosophy of the Ancients, but in the virtue ethics of the Greeks, it was taken for granted that vice and weakness are synonyms.
You say "Numbers, supplies, competent generals and so on decide the course of wars, for example, not the laws laid down in Deuteronomy." However, following the intent of the laws of Deuteronomy is what gets you numbers, supplies, and competent generals, as you yourself note in: "To make society more or less work, we forced both sexes to compromise on their sexual interests, which are a product of their innate identity. Sexual morality was simply a tool then, with a goal in mind: civilization."
The GAE has strayed from the intent of Deuteronomy since the sexual revolution of the 70s at the very least (and some say much earlier), and now no longer has competent generals, or supplies, or numbers of competent, loyal troops.
In terms of competent generals: take a look at any NATO meeting today. In terms of supplies: manufacturing has been deported to China (who is more or less pro-Russia), and the recent train derailments either show gross incompetence or active malice, both incapable of maintaining an advanced civilization. In terms of numbers: the GAE army is having trouble with recruitment, and the recruits they do have are worse than what was before.
Now you will probably say that Deuteronomy is jewish, therefore the GAE is more Deuteronomy than Russia. Except that religious jews come up with more and more clever ways to interpret Deuteronomy, as seen with the scope inflation of Deuteronomy 14:21, so as to not follow the intent, and secular jews like Nuland discard it entirely.
Is this "two moar weeks" cope? Possibly, although I usually go with "2 moar decades" on a civilization scale or "2 moar years" in this Russia vs GAE case. You yourself have noted that a lot of Russia's problems are due to political posturing and liberals thinking a deal can be cut with those who are agreement incapable and other vices, as seen with Wagner not getting their shells.
An interesting article, Rolo.
Where does identity interact with say culture? I would say identity forms the culture but it's the reverse right now. Whites are told to focus on fake secondary identities. Men literally cannot be men unless they're from a magical group and even that has limits. How do we restore root identity?
The bible never said suicide is a sin.
Russia took useful waterfront land from the NATO puppet, how is that a loss? The real problem is the Kremlin is having a 1/2 war, wasted time in anti-Russian areas in the north, and lost momentum. It is not God's fault Russians did not support Lebed.
Hello Rolo,
Another good thought provoking writing. I am glad I subscribed.
For you like for most, myself included, discussions on morals and morality are quicksand. You make a mistake that should have become apparent when comparing an officer and a housewife : you confuse or conflate public morals, morals expected in the exercise of a function, organisation morals, and moral principles that organise the life of an individual. A woman as a wife uses one set of morals, as a mother another, as a managing director in an investment bank yet another, as an internet reseller yet yet another. Some of these function morals are codified implicitly or explicitly by the society or the state through the law or the media. Others are determined by the moral principles assimilated early in life.
Public morals are the set of rules that enable society to function by building the trust that the various social functions that an individual assumes have compatible morals.
As you indicate, some of our current problems arise because the masculine and feminine morals have been distorted and made incompatible. Others arise because legislating away and shouting away discrimination against sub-populations indulging in criminal behaviour exposes large swathes of the normal population to rampant crime and destroys trust in public authorities. Trannies can be analysed in a similar way.
Identity precedes morality you wrote. True, very true, because each layer of identity relates to a social function and is paired with an expected set of behaviours.
Even the ancient Greeks were happy to allie with the Persians against other Greeks. Alexander actively promoted mixing with the locals in his Empire. The ancient PIE very well may have mixed themselves into oblivion in India.
Perhaps identity is a better 1st principle than God in some cases but just like a society's conceptions of God can shift so can identity. What brakes down in a society first as a rule? Its relationship to the divine or its ethnic identity? Bosnians are pure Slavs but Islam puts them firmly outside the family despite them being racially identical to Serbs.
The God/identity thing is so interwoven that its not really possible to separate them.